Why did they kill the grammar school.

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Why did they kill the grammar school.

GAZZER
When the socialists in the UK killed off the Grammar Schools in the early 1970s- they ended a system that had, over the past 300 years, made an academic education available to all and sundry provided that they had the ability. The institution had made a major contribution to the wealth and well-being of the nation

To get into a Grammar School one had to pass the 11+ exam- which comprised an English Language paper- an Arithmetic paper and an IQ test.

Having passed the test, one then attended a well-equipped and well-funded school that emphasised a good all-round academic education, for free.

From the Grammar Schools a high proportion of students proceeded to University, whilst others took jobs in banking, the civil service, education and as officers in the armed forces.

However, almost to a man- the opponents of the Grammar School system were from privately-schooled upper middle-class backgrounds, including the 2nd Viscount Stansgate (Labour member for Bristol South East) Sir Anthony Wedgewood Benn-in my view those in the Labour party love to promote socialism in all its forms but just hate to practice it when it comes to imposing it on their kith and kin-recent examples are Diane Abbot MP.

Perhaps the Labour party should be disbanded an the REAL labour party set up, with proper working class people at its soul- or is it all far too late for that-that is, multiculturalism has changed this country beyond repair.
If you try to cure evil with evil-you will add more pain to your fate.
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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

Percy.
Its not true yours is an idealised version of it.I passed my 11 plus and was then sent to a poorly equipped slum of a school in the East end that concentrated on trying to beat its pupils into the civil service.
The grammar schools picked the few academics it could mould and condemned the rest to a second class education system that would churn out factory workers.
It was as much the de industrialisation of the UK that lead to the demise of the Grammars.There was no more need for the civil servants to send off to Empire there was no need for the form fillers and factory fodder any more.The great dream was for big campus type schools as in America big with all the facilities the old schools lacked.It was stopped by the lack of money the strikes the industrial turmoil then the Internet came along which makes new challenges and opportunities.Its much much more than you say.
“The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.”




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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

GAZZER
This post was updated on .
My post was very true- what are you saying percy-that what was put in place of grammar schools was better.

I really don't think so-I know many people who thrived and put it down to the benefits of a higher education that grammar schools gave-unlike secondary modern schools of the 70s with watered down qualifications and socialist principles.

The effect on closing them has in my view lowered the standards of education for working class people in this country to an all time low. I am paying for my grandson to have Arithmetic and English lesson once a week and the fellow is a most clever articulate Indian- who was fully educated in India and who's educational standards are still based upon proper British educational standards.

Bring back grammar schools give bright working class kids a chance.
If you try to cure evil with evil-you will add more pain to your fate.
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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

Romfordian
Sorry Gazzer it wasn't Labour Although i agree the education system need reform

Thatcher's term of office was marked by proposals for more local education authorities to close grammar schools and to adopt comprehensive secondary
Not a party activist but WAS a Labour supporter
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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

Percy.
I pay for my Grand children to attend a montessori school so I am able to comment on education in modern times.I also assist in a local school for profoundly disabled children.My two sisters are teachers and nieces are either teachers or assistant teachers .I have two Nieces at Cambridge in College.
The Comprehensives we have are not how it was envisaged they were to be huge Campus style College type units with every facility and device needed like the Big American colleges Havering would probably just have Two at the most and Children would be Bussed to them.
The problem is Money and the Public schools that allow the chattering classes to opt out of the state education system.
What is needed is to close all the schools in Havering and take over say Maylands Golf course and Build one huge modern school with playing fields and Modern teaching facilities.There is no need to have a teacher in every class room but have one Good teacher in one class and Web cast the Lesson to other classes equipped with assistant teachers and the ability to remotely ask questions like Twitter or face book accounts.
One big School up to year six then one big comprehensive up to university. is all Havering needs.
The keeping of small out of date schools through out the Borough is a major cost and problem for comprehensive education.
“The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.”




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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

GAZZER
In reply to this post by Romfordian
Hmmm not sure your right Romo...

One of Tony Blair's closest allies has admitted Labour's obsession with the comprehensive system had "destroyed" many good schools.

Education Minister Lord Adonis conceded the closure of grammar schools in the 1960s and 1970s was a backward step that "reinforced class divisions" rather than helping those less well off.

The comments are a stunning repudiation of the 'one size fits all' education policies which Labour clung to for decades and many MPs still support.

His words effectively admit that Labour has failed an entire generation of schoolchildren.

Critics last night said Lord Adonis should go further and call a halt to the destruction of grammar schools.

Labour has recently ordered the closure of selective schools in Northern Ireland.



If you try to cure evil with evil-you will add more pain to your fate.
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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

GAZZER
In reply to this post by Percy.
The keeping of small out of date schools through out the Borough is a major cost and problem for comprehensive education.

Small out of date schools may provide the best education a child can ever hope to achieve-going to the extreme a one on one teaching system- ie a good teacher who only has to concentrate on a few pupils will provide a far better education than a good teacher who has a class of fifty kids.

In this instance Small is proven to give better results and bring to the fore the most brightest pupils than mass production of lowly educated children with an abundance of worthless paper qualifications.

Cost should not be even be considered-our children are the future there REAL un-political education is paramount to the future of our society-teach the kids the truth- not political social garbage that becomes worthless when they try to work in the real world.

If you try to cure evil with evil-you will add more pain to your fate.
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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

Percy.
Northern Ireland has to have selective education taken from it and Religious selection as well. Until all the children are educated together they will not move forward and stop killing each other or stopping one section working.Its a must in Ireland the breaking up of vested religious interests.
In the UK shutting down public schools and selection has to be undertaken to stop the rich opting out of the system and others moving to areas with so called good schools when selection is precluded all must work to make all schools good.
“The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.”




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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

Independent man
In reply to this post by GAZZER
The grammar school and secondary modern was a poor system that should have been disbanded many years ago,the main problem was that it judged the children at eleven,if you were a late developer and failed the eleven + you were doomed to a second class education.
All my children went to good comprehensive state schools,and worked hard and went on to university,so they all got a good education im not so sue if that would of happened under the old system.
 
Drop that Drip Double Dip Dave
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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

GAZZER
In reply to this post by Percy.
Indeed all schools should be made good-however bright children should be given the best chance as there intelligence dictates.

Its just no good to destroy the future of bright and clever children because we want to create a political correct-socialist equality ideology, suggesting than every one and everything is equal when it is obviously not.

Let the brilliant children of this country become our brilliant future-let those with less intelligence become Labour MPs who are always hell bent in destroying the aspiration and vision of talented people that they are so envious off.


Got to go now-time for beer-merryment-and thigh slapping. TTFN

If you try to cure evil with evil-you will add more pain to your fate.
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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

Romfordian
My original understanding of the Comprehensive system was that if a pupil was good at particular subjects they would be given the level of education needed and the porer subjects brought up to a better standard ie change classrooms to suit ability of the subject unfortunately what seems to have happend is that it was operated on the same basis as the Secondary Mod / Gramar school system ie graded and then all kids in that class taught at the same level
Not a party activist but WAS a Labour supporter
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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

The Ear
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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

Percy.
In Europe children don't start school until they are much older they are comprehensively educated but when they show an aptitude and interest in something they have the opportunity to pursue it.
They are not judged at any age and during the year at any time can decide to remain academic or go on to more manual or less book based subjects thus those good at engineering can go on to study it when they want and those who go to book based schools are allowed to.
“The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.”




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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

Ho-Hum
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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

Independent man
It time to move on we can,t live in the past,the grammar schools failed for the majority of kids,eleven is to young an age to be judged at
Drop that Drip Double Dip Dave
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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

GAZZER
This post was updated on .
Grammar school has been around for over 300 years so they wasn't that much of a failure-and helped many working class children achieve a higher education-better jobs than whatever went before.

Moving on is not always the answer our MODERN primary and secondary education system is Brocken-our children have become less educated than kids in India who still use our basic principles of education.

Grammar schools were not designed for the majority of kids, it was designed for the minority of brighter kids-anyway the education that children received pre-war and up until the 60s was very good-my mum can still recite all he twelve times tables-her English spelling is without fault even at 85 years old.

We had a education system that was of good standard, it could have been tweaked to be made better-instead it has been hijacked by the loony left who in there communist equality bid has destroyed quality injuring many working class children on the way. Millions of Blairite era kids,  cannot even construct sentences properly indeed many are truly illiterate.
If you try to cure evil with evil-you will add more pain to your fate.
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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

GAZZER
"The new breed of debt-slave won’t need much of an education. The dumbing down of education over the last 50 years serves two purposes: firstly saving money and secondly less well educated debt-slaves cause less trouble and work for less. We will see an increase in the use of class assistants instead of fully trained teachers in State schools, they have already been taking classes on their own in some schools".
If you try to cure evil with evil-you will add more pain to your fate.
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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

Independent man
In reply to this post by GAZZER
Gazzer the grammar school system was a good system for a few kids I agree,but we have to have an eduction policy that works for the majority and we must move on and try to find a better system.
Blair never had the answer and devalued the poor system we had in place,these idiot in charge at the moment will make matters worse,the will bring this country to its knees by the time they are finished.
Tony Blair was the worse thing that happened to this country for a long time second only to Thatcher as the worse P.M in my life time,we have no chance of changing things with the 3 major parties we have to choose from.
You and I will never agree on what the answer is,you will take the right wing path which I think will be a disaster,I would like to see all of us poor or rich work together and pay an equal price to get out of the sh*t.
so we will have to agree to disagree once again
Drop that Drip Double Dip Dave
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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

GAZZER
A good system that has served working class kids well has been dismantled and Brocken all because of a Marxist socialist ideology-not because it was better for the children.

ALL children should have a basic education-brighter children should be able to move through the system without fear or prejudice and at no cost. A "one systems fits all" does not work and stifles nay smothers the spirit-aspiration and drive.

This country has been destroyed by loony left wing ideology-don't take my word for it look around you-we have a generation of young men and woman who only want to be movie stars-come out of college with 10 A levels of meaningless qualifications.

We are all equal under God-but we are not all equal in human society-I always wanted to be a pro-footballer, should football teams have be made to take me on although I had medium talent.





If you try to cure evil with evil-you will add more pain to your fate.
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Re: Why did they kill the grammar school.

Lorraine Moss
There are still Grammar schools in Chelmsford.  I remember when my eldest son was in year 6 of primary school one of the boys in his class was very bright and his family actually moved to Chelmsford so he could attend one.  This link refers to the 11 plus exam http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/schools/regions/essex-11-plus.
“Never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty and truth and compassion against injustice and lying and greed. If people all over the world...would do this, it would change the earth.”
― William Faulkner--
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