BREXIT - What would you do now....

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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Phil Wailing
In an effort to look at the facts rather than opinion and personal political allegiance let’s take the words Conservative and Labour out of the equation and substitute them with “this government” and the “previous government”

On the subject of political incompetence few things demonstrate this better than this governments record on welfare spending, an area they have long claimed as their territory but in which they have overseen a culture of waste.

Just look at disability benefits.

We’re told repeatedly that spending on “welfare” for disabled people is out of control, yet the Department for Work and Pensions has gone nearly £200m over budget paying two private firms to run the personal independence payments assessment system.

This government have now spent £700m of taxpayer’s money on these contracts alone, despite the fact the process is so flawed that four out of five rejections appealed against are overturned.

Or consider the government’s flagship benefit reform, universal credit.

Five years behind schedule, with delays announced seven times and a price tag rising to a staggering £16bn. And yet, with all that public money it’s still plagued by administrative chaos and design flaws to the extent that it’s not only failing in its purpose of improving the benefits system but is actively creating more social and economic problems.

The Trussell Trust found that universal credit’s much-criticised six-week waiting period has led to mass emergency food parcels. In areas where the full universal credit rollout has taken place, food bank referral rates has now more than double the national average.

On top of this there is the personal debt, rent arrears and evictions it is also causing. When families lose their homes because of government policy, where do they go? Increasingly, to emergency accommodation paid for by the public purse. While this government talk of bringing down the housing bill local councils have had to spend more than £3.5bn on temporary accommodation for homeless families in the past five years. Over that period, under this governments leadership that bill has increased by 43%.

Try to take your own personal political allegiance out of the subject of this government’s competence and just look at the facts. You will become much more relaxed and may even begin to see the reality of the current situation rather than the editor of the Sun, Mail, Telegraph and Mirrors highly political and bias opinion.

If you look at the charts below you will see that this governments debt has risen by 60% when adjusted for inflation. These are not my figures, they are this governments own figures published by the Office for Budget Responsibility.

Unfortunately when you post on forums like this one and divulge information that shows a political party in a bad light, all common sense goes out of the window, primeval tribal instinct takes over and the defence of your personal preference rules with scant regard for incompetence or complete failure which unfortunately lands us in the situation we are in at the moment.



We haven't inherited the earth from our parents, we have borrowed it from our children.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

bellend
In reply to this post by fred
well said fred
If we learn from our mistakes, why aint I a genius, If you educate the masses where's the advantage for the few?

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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Michael Towner
Banned User
In reply to this post by Phil Wailing
Thanks Phil. I was making that very point about public perception - you put it more elegantly.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

fred
In reply to this post by Phil Wailing
Let me put it more simply”if you have a boil you lance it”
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Phil Wailing
I have been giving BREXIT an unhealthy amount of thought in recent weeks and I have come to the decision both of the major parties in Westminster do not really want it. There is a few dozen anti EU on the governments side and appear to be a few on the opposition benches, but that's about it.

I was also wondering how many tens of billions BREXIT is going to cost and what it will achieve.

I voted leave but in light of the current efforts by the government I am not sure that was a wise choice. Perhaps with a different team dealing with the EU it may be different but the premature triggering of article 50 appears to have put all the aces in the EU's hands.

So far the only thing I can see our negotiating team are trying to achieve is to give us all the benefits that we already have.
We haven't inherited the earth from our parents, we have borrowed it from our children.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Ho-Hum
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Phil Wailing
I understand what you are saying, not sure it's correct though and agree with your comments about unelected bureaucrats but we live in a country with the highest amount of unelected bureaucrats on earth, the House of Lords and they have the final say (more or less) on our laws.

Germany, France and Italy contribute more to the EU budget than all the other 24 combined, including the UK - If you take our EU contributions as a percentage of gross national income the UK pays less than than any other member state - 0.6% of gross national income.

Germany pays 0.9% of national income and the biggest payer (% of income) is Greece.

The G7 are the 7 countries with the largest economies on earth, Germany, France and Italy are all G7 members. I struggle to see how EU membership has damaged them regardless of the Mail and the Express doing their level best to have us believe these countries are skint.

As I become more and more enlightened on this issue it appears there is one reason and one reason only for the EU referendum and Brexit - It boils down to 2 people, Cameron was scared stiff of Farage.

We haven't inherited the earth from our parents, we have borrowed it from our children.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

bellend
In reply to this post by Phil Wailing
I'll concede one point Phil, we can not trust, their negotiators and most definitely can not trust ours.  
If we learn from our mistakes, why aint I a genius, If you educate the masses where's the advantage for the few?

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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Phil Wailing
Looking on the bright side, and in hilarious anticipation, if we end up with a complete disaster (the most likely outcome) we can all look forward to Andrew Rosindell's newsletter telling us it was all Jeremy Corbyn and Sadiq Khan's fault.
We haven't inherited the earth from our parents, we have borrowed it from our children.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Ho-Hum
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Phil Wailing
This is again part of the problem, there is a belief that EU bureaucrats can make our laws when they can do nothing of the sort.

By unelected bureaucrats I assume you are referring to the EU commission. The only people unelected are the commission President and commissioners.

The Commission can only propose laws in those areas where the EU governments have unanimously agreed to allow it to do under the EU treaty.

Put another way, the Commission can only propose EU laws in areas where the UK government and the House of Commons has allowed it to do so.

Proposing is not the same as ‘deciding’.

A Commission proposal only becomes law if it is approved by both a qualified-majority in the EU Council and a simple majority in the European Parliament. Thats what our MEP's are for.

In practice this means that after the amendments adopted by the governments and the MEPs, the legislation usually looks very different to what the Commission originally proposed. In this sense, the Commission is much weaker than it was in the 1980s, when it was harder to amend its proposals in the Council and when the European Parliament did not have amendment and veto power.

Unfortunately - you will find in the fullness of time - our politicians have been lying to us.
We haven't inherited the earth from our parents, we have borrowed it from our children.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Ho-Hum
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Phil Wailing
There are 28 EU commissioners and 751 members of the European parliament.

Britain alone has 73 MEP's. The commissioners propose new laws but they must be approved by the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament.

There are 28 seats on the council of ministers, each member state has a representative which is the minister who's portfolio is affected by the new proposed law. If the new proposal affects defence then Michael Fallon will be present as one of the 28 ministers. Our minister responsible must agree to any new directive.

The European Commission can only propose EU laws in areas where the UK government and the House of Commons has allowed it to do so.

The EU commissioners are appointed, so are the members of the House of Lords, no change there. The EU is no less undemocratic than the UK.  

No new EU directives go on the UK statute book unless it has been scrutinised by the Secretary of State responsible and approved by the democratically elected European Parliament.

As I have already said, unfortunately - you will find in the fullness of time - our politicians have been lying to us.
We haven't inherited the earth from our parents, we have borrowed it from our children.
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