BREXIT - What would you do now....

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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Phil Wailing
You mention the state of the roads and they are patched up with a splash of tar.

Due to circumstances beyond my control I cannot wander too far from Romford at the moment so I have been visiting many places in Essex and Suffolk. One glaring observation is you always know when you are back in Havering, the car starts bouncing around on the roads.

No where else that I have been are the roads in such a dire state of repair as they are in Havering.
We haven't inherited the earth from our parents, we have borrowed it from our children.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

bellend
I actually said that same thing to the mrs when coming back from the midlands few weeks back.
If we learn from our mistakes, why aint I a genius, If you educate the masses where's the advantage for the few?

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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Percy
I was in Kent last week and Gravesend .Rochester and Maidstone are no better other than the motorways.
Revolutions are always verbose.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

bellend
The Claim: The UK could, in theory, walk away from the EU without paying any money at all.
"We don't as a matter of law owe anything at all" - David Jones MP, 15 October
"We're actually under no legal obligation to pay any money at all after we've left" - Bernard Jenkin MP, 22 September
"We don't owe them any money" - John Redwood MP, 7 August
"Legally we owe nothing" - Jacob Rees-Mogg MP, 6 August
Reality Check Verdict: Leading Brexiteers are fond of saying that there is no legal obligation on the UK to pay anything at all to the EU as it departs. If there is no deal under the Article 50 process that is almost certainly correct as a strictly legal interpretation, but it is untested. And "no deal" on money would also mean "no deal" on any other issues as well.
 
Legal and political considerations are obviously intertwined in the debate about a financial settlement as the UK prepares to leave the EU. But it is possible to separate them in some respects.
Article 70 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties states that the termination of a treaty… "does not affect the right, obligation or legal situation of the parties created through the execution of the treaty prior to its termination".
In other words, as the EU would argue, your obligations only come to an end on the day of the termination of an international treaty - the "get-out clause" doesn't apply to obligations made before you leave.
But - and it is a big but - there is a crucial caveat. Those terms apply under the Vienna Convention "unless the treaty otherwise provides or the parties otherwise agree".
And the treaty in question - the Treaty on European Union (TEU) - does provide otherwise, in the form of the famous Article 50. So Article 50 of the TEU trumps Article 70 of the Vienna Convention.
Now, Article 50 doesn't say anything about money or rights or obligations. So, in this interpretation, the UK would not be required to pay anything if there were to be no withdrawal agreement, because the treaty itself says nothing about any such payments.
Article 50 says "the treaties shall cease to apply to the state in question" either when a withdrawal agreement takes effect, or two years after the Article 50 process has been triggered by the member state that intends to leave. This is the ticking clock.
An in-depth report on this debate, issued by the House of Lords, acknowledges that there are "competing interpretations" on what the UK should pay, but it reaches the conclusion that, because the European treaties do not say anything on the matter, there would be no enforceable obligation to make the UK pay any financial contribution at all.
The Lords has taken the view that Article 50 is in effect a "guillotine" and the UK would be free to walk away without any responsibilities should agreement not be reached. But, and we'll come back to this, it warns that there would be a price to pay.
If we learn from our mistakes, why aint I a genius, If you educate the masses where's the advantage for the few?

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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

fred
I would still vote leave,this issue seems to have the same ingredients as the millennium ie the world as we know it will come to an end as people who should have known better were keen to tell us,but hey presto its still spinning on its axis as I suspect it will be if we have the balls to tell those foreign idiots to fuck off,appears to me that the EU is in its early death throes what with one thing and another,well I hope so anyway.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

dalek1
In reply to this post by bellend
I voted leave in 2016 and if the gutless ones in the Tory government try to get another referendum going I'd do the same.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Ho-Hum
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Phil Wailing
Still don't know, I voted to leave but I can honestly say I did not fully appreciate the consequences of leaving and I still don't.

What is more concerning is the government seem completely divided on the issue and they don't appear to understand the enormity of brexit.

Depending on which minister appears on Sky news you get a different and contradictory opinion, they are hopelessly divided on the issue. I am not entirely sure what the opposition position is but there again their position is irrelevant as they are not in government or taking any part in the brexit negotiations.

On the enlargement of the EU in 2004 the government told us 13,000 EU citizens from the 9 new member states will come to the UK - Millions came. They are telling us all will be OK. They were hopelessly wrong in 2004 and on most issues since they have been hopelessly wrong, dumped the policy or done a U turn on it.

I guess we will not know the consequences till we have left.
We haven't inherited the earth from our parents, we have borrowed it from our children.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Percy
Don't worry the sunny uplands of freedom are coming it will be a hard winter but next year all will be warm and bright.
Revolutions are always verbose.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

fred
In reply to this post by Phil Wailing
Stating the obvious there cock,l'll give you a couple of givens the M25 will still be a mobile traffic jam and Jimmy Savile will still be dead.
l personally would be far more worried if the magic money tree man ever got his hands on government.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Phil Wailing
I would suggest Mr Hammond will shake the magic money tree next month.

I suggest you read the report by Professor Richard Murphy - Professor of Practice in International Political Economy at City, University of London.

Richard Murphy was appointed as Professor of Practice in International Political Economy at City University in September 2015. Richard is a UK chartered accountant and political economist whose main areas of research relate to taxation and its impact on local, national and international economies and the relationships within and between them.

Richard was a practising chartered accountant and corporate director for more than 20 years before becoming one of the co-founders of the Tax Justice Network. He combines his current role with directorships of Tax Research UK and the Fair Tax Mark.

Professor Murphy is principally engaged by them to undertake research on the European tax gap, country-by-country reporting, BEPS implementation and related issues as part of a multi-university Horizon 2020 project funded by the European Union.

1) The Conservatives have been the biggest borrowers over the last 70 years.

2) Labour has always repaid debt more often than the Conservatives, and has always repaid more debt, on average.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/
We haven't inherited the earth from our parents, we have borrowed it from our children.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Michael Towner
Banned User
An immediate knee-jerk response to your post Phil.

If, as you say, and I've no reason to doubt....

1) The Conservatives have been the biggest borrowers over the last 70 years.

2) Labour has always repaid debt more often than the Conservatives, and has always repaid more debt, on average.


...then the Tories' presentation is streets ahead of Labour. Why isn't Labour's publicity machine spelling this out for the public? Sure, a shadow minister here and a spokesman there will mention the fact, but there's no concerted drive around this issue.  


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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Phil Wailing
I was merely making you aware of the findings of Professor Richard Murphy. You will need to ask Jeremy Corbyn why their election campaigns don't reflect the good professors findings.

If the Tory's "Strong and Stable" presentation is so good, why was the June general election such a disaster?
We haven't inherited the earth from our parents, we have borrowed it from our children.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Michael Towner
Banned User
I dig that Phil. My questions are rhetorical, open-ended, thinking aloud, not directed at you. Knee jerk as I said in my earlier post.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Phil Wailing
You actually raise a very valid point that the public perception of fiscal competence lays with the Conservatives and the public perception of Labour is they will bankrupt the country.

It can be misleading to take one set of figures in isolation so I had a quick Google and from what I have seen so far the opposite is true. Perhaps the Tory's are working on the Joseph Goebbels theory that if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

It appears to have worked.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-which-party-has-a-better-track-record-on-the-economy
We haven't inherited the earth from our parents, we have borrowed it from our children.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

bellend
I bet the immigration numbers are not that different either.
If we learn from our mistakes, why aint I a genius, If you educate the masses where's the advantage for the few?

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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

Percy
In reply to this post by Phil Wailing
Using Marxist Leninist theories you label the Tories as a party no one with any concern or sympathy for people or the country and make it unacceptable to vote for them.
Revolutions are always verbose.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

fred
In reply to this post by Phil Wailing
Personnally I treat "financial experts" with a pinch of salt if they were that clever and informed why the fuck are they still working surely they would have millions in the bank due to their so called "superior knowledge.Bit like Physics would have seen it coming.
Given that the country has been skint since 1945/6 perhaps we could focus on saving money instead by as l have mentioned before by getting rid of all the illegals,making anybody that's rocked up here in the last 10 years produce medical Insurance before the get access to any of of our NHS services,withdraw housing benefit from the same people,that should save a couple of bob plus freeing up some much needed housing stock when they have gone.That should negate the need to concrete over our green and pleasant land.
We could also redirect the Foreign Aid Budget back into this country,as my Nan used to say"charity begins at home".
One other thing cancel HS2- who wants to get Birmingham 20 minutes quicker than you can now-and put the millions saved into upgrading existing infrastructure.
Never happen under the bunch of 2 bob pricks running the country at present and would be ten times worse under ole magic tree and his cronies as they import another million labour voters.
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

OLD CODGER
Well said Fred
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Re: BREXIT - What would you do now....

fred
Thank you,makes you feel better for getting it off you chest even if sod all happens.
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